Hallo PDA,
zur Zeit fahre ich auch noch mit Castrol Classic 20-W-50, habe aber irgendwo einen sehr interessanten Beitrag zum Thema Synthetiköl in MK VI etc gelesen, dennich gerade aber noch suche. Tenor war gewesen, dass Synthetic-Öl tatsächlich vorteilhafter sei und auch der Empfehlung des Herstellers nach heutigem Wissen entspricht, zumindest was überholte Motoren angeht. Meine, der Bericht ist in einem der Rundschreiben des MK VI Registers des RREC zu finden. Ich suche.
Bzgl. anderer Schmiermittel (Getriebe: Handschalter) habe ich im Forum des BDC Folgendes gefunden.
Grüße, Jürgen
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As the new, proud (but apprehensive) owner of B283EW, I would welcome advice on currently recommended oils for the engine, gearbox, and rear axle. Is Hi-Press SC, as originally recommended for the rear axle, the same as the Hi-Press which I believe is still available? Or can I use any 140 gear oil?
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I have two MKVI's B227JN and B423NY with spin-off oil filter conversions and I use 5-40 fully synthetic in the engine and EP80/90 gear oil in the axle and gearbox. It is best to buy Motorcycle Fork oil SAE20 grade for the shock absorbers as the ride is not so harsh. SAE20 engine oil is not easy to get. It is a good idea to remove the breather from the top of the rear axle and make sure it is not blocked or clear it out. Otherwise the axle breathes through the pinion seal and the dirt wears out the rear axle. I've got Geeson axles (Crewe Classic 6) in both my cars because of this.
Ashley
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Talking of breathing. The engine breather on the Mk Vl/S1 is far from perfect and relies on very clean and good condition engines.I visualise the pressure of the crankcase is often (due to piston blow by)far greater than it was meant to be thereby restricting the oil return from the tappet chest that is gravity fed.Backing up oil in the rocker chamber will soon be drawn down the inlet valve guides. I have used that superb oil known as synthetic in these engines.And transmission too with very good results. Bear in mind only clean newly built engines will benefit.
bensport.
Warren--
B283EW, I know that chassis number, she's a nice old gal. I must give the previous owner a ring right now, he'll no doubt be flush so he can buy me a pint with the sale proceeds. Congratulations, I hope you get many years of pleasure from the car.
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Thanks for the comments so far; today I sought Castrol's advice on rear axle lubricants. Hi-Press SC was a sulphur-chlorinated 140EP oil, which they described as having a "vicious" additive. Nowadays sulphur-phosphorus compounds are used, but even so, their advice was that if we wish to be ultra-cautious, we should stick to GL4 or even GL3 rated oils, rather than the more common GL5, which can attack bronze and white metal. The reason for staying with 140 grade is its film strength, which is higher than that of 90 grade oils. The bad news is that they stopped making D140, a low-additive oil, some time ago, and have now stopped production of 140EP, though there may still be some stock around. They sell an equivalent industrial oil, Alpha SP 460, but only in 25 litre or larger drums. I see that Penrite sell a "mild" 140EP oil.
Kevin
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The mention of 140 grade oil for the back axle puzzles me. The owner`s handbook for my B420EY lists various rear axle lubricants including Wakefield`s Special Castrol Hi-press S.C. Five of them, not including the above, have 90 in the name with the suggestion that they contain an additive which makes them suitable for hypoid gears, and I have always been under the impression that the difference was in the additives and not in the basic grade of the oil itself, i.e.that the Special Castrol Hi-press S.C. was a 90 grade oil. The additives were certainly different. I was working, shortly after the war, with the firm that made the additives for most of the well known brands and the oil companies would only buy additives from a specific production run to their own specification and would not accept output from another production run even to the same specification. Why that should be so was never really explained but I suspect that it was due to the fact that in those early days of extreme pressure lubricants there were a number of factors which were not properly understood. However, it is certain that the advice not to mix different brands was well founded. B420EY was ten years old when I purchased it in 1959 (with 97,000 miles on the clock)and in spite of it being maintained by a main Rolls and Bentley dealer since new there was evidence that there was a rubber like sediment adhering to the inside of the back axle casing, probably caused by different additives not being compatible. This was discovered at 100,930 miles when I changed the rear axle oil for the first time, refilling with Esso Expee 90, and found a little play in the main pinion bearing. At that time there was a very slight noise from the back axle at about 35mph. At 108165 miles (Sept.1960) I decided to have a look at the main pinion bearing which is relatively easy to get at, so I had it out. This is the early type bearing with a roller bearing sandwiched between two ball bearings, not the later two taper roller bearing assembly. The was a little play in the centre roller bearing but nothing significant and the pinion nose bearing was OK as far as could be seen. There were no chips or wear on the pinion teeth so I cleaned everything up and put it all back. There was much sludge etc. in the casing which was cleaned out as far as possible, especially the oilways to the pinion bearing. The slight back axle noise was unchanged, as expected. At 114450 miles a slight leak was noticed from the front of the pinion housing so I decided to renew the felt seal and the bearing itself although the old one seemed quite good. The new bearing was very slightly longer than the original and since I did not have an adjusting washer of the right thickness I machined a little off the cover to get the right clearance rather than trying to thin down the original hardened adjusting washer. The pinion was then assembled to the casing with the original washer that adjusts the depth of engagement after the internal oilways had been cleaned out again (not a lot of deposit had collected since last time). This reduced the back axle noise but it was still there. After another 7 years, at 205575 miles, the back axle noise was more noticeable so it was stripped and examined. The taper roller bearing on the nearside halfshaft inside the main casing had worn due to lack of lubrication caused by the gummy deposit inside the casing blocking the oil path. This was the rest of the stuff which was inaccessible during earlier examinations. The crown wheel, which is spring loaded to move away from the pinion, had shifted by about 0.020", which seemed to be quite a lot and I was apprehensive as to the conditon of the crown wheel and pinion teeth. However, my fears proved groundless since on putting the crown wheel up on a surface plate and clocking carefully I could not find more than 0.0024" error anywhere. Rolls said that the original adjacent and accumulated pitch error on the crown wheels was 0.002" anyway and suggested putting it all back with the original depth of engagement as etched on the pinion. This was done with two new main taper roller bearings on the half shafts, a new pinion nose bearing and some attention to the differential gears to make sure that they all took an approximately even load. It was most gratifying to find, as a result of all this, that the back axle noise had disappeared. After 35 more years and over 200,000 more miles the back axle is still quiet. On the basis that bearing lubrication in the back axle can be more of a problem than crown wheel and pinion wear I have, during this latter period, used Castrol Hypoy EP80, i.e. a slightly thinner oil than that recommended. The only mention of the taper roller pinion bearings in my copy of the MK VI workshop manual is that they were introduced during the S series so presumably they are on some R Types and not on any Mk VI`s. The Service Handbook (not the MK VI workshop manual) has a lot of information about rear axle overhaul and includes diagrams of the taper roller pinion bearing assembly which suggest that much better pinion bearing lubrication arrangements were made. The downside seems to be that the taper bearings are much more tricky to setup than the older type. It would be interesting to hear from someone who has an R Type later than S433SP who can tell us what recommended rear axle lubricants are given in the owners handbook. The only reference I can find in the MK VI Workshop Manual to a change in the recommended oils is in Section D, BB-147, which recommends EP80 type lubricants for the gearbox in order to prolong the life of the first speed gears.
Laurie Fox
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My books recommend SAE 80/90 not 140
Ashley
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Manual Gearbox: Pennzoil ATF+3 Automatic Transmission Fluid Of course you were all right and my RR&Bentley garage was all wrong! Grrr. I know absolutely nothing about cars and rely on authorized mechanics to screw things up for me. Anyway - to prevent others from making the same mistake, please disregard the earlier post. I now use a Hypoid 80W/90. Please forgive me and put the blame on the clowns at RR&B. (Yes, I did specifically tell them I had a manual gearbox.)
[This message has been edited by Turinger (edited 29-04-2004).]
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I am surprised that you would use ATF on a manual box.
bensport
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Me too! RR changed their recommendation years ago to EP80 to try to limit damage to first and reverse gear.
